Raids Revamp

[God 14]

Lately, there have been some wonderful changes made as far as raiding goes. The addition of the epic pet box and the new raid achievements are wonderful, and are much needed. That being said, there are a few things that could be done to enhance raiding even more-so. Some of these ideas have been suggested by other users, but I feel like they were not addressed in any updates and so I feel like they need to be brought to Ryan's attention again.

 

1. Raids Leaderboard/Highscores.

This would be a wonderful addition, as it would allow for genuine competition between friends and users to try and have more raids completed than other users. For users who have done lots of raids, it would give them a sense of pride to see their name at/near the top of the list. It would also give users who are interested in raiding an idea of who they could ask for information pertaining to raids, incase they are having issues. 

Additionally, if there was a way to count how many raids had been done at each difficulty, and the quickest time completed per difficulty, and how many people were in your group for said time, that would make the competition in raiding much more relevant. I understand that features like this would be much more difficult to add, but I think it's something that should be looked at in the near future.

 

2. Added difficulty/Grandmaster difficulty

Currently, the raid difficulties and requirements are as follows. 

• Normal - No Requirements - 
• Adept - 10 Raids - Bosses have 50% more hp, 10% more def, deal 5% more damage and the player deals 5% less damage
• Expert - 50 Raids - Bosses have 200% more hp, 20% more def, deal 7.5% more damage and the player deals 7.5% less damage
• Master - 150 Raids - Bosses have 300% more hp, 30% more def, deal 10% more damage and the player deals 10% less damage
• Grandmaster - 1000 Raids - Bosses have 400% more hp, 50% more def, deal 15% more damage and the player deals 15% less damage

Now, looking at this, there is a massive gap in-between Master and Grandmaster. What I propose, is either lowering the requirement for Grandmaster raids to 500 Raids, or more preferably, add in a new difficulty. Adding in a difficulty and adjusting Grandmasters so that they're more difficult would add another challenge for raiders to grind out, while feeling some sense of accomplishment during the grind to unlock Grandmasters. I propose the difficulty in-between Master and Grandmaster be 500 Raids completed with bosses having 400% more hp, 40% more def and deal 15% more damage, and the player deals 15% less, with Grandmasters being changed to 1000 Raids complete with Bosses having 500% more hp, 50% more def and deal 17.5-20% more damage, with the player dealing 17.5-20% less damage. With the addition of the new cursed weapons, I feel like these changes would be a great challenge to complete in a timely manner. 

 

3. Deadclicks in Xarpus and Verzik

This is a big one, and I know Ryan has made an attempt at fixing this, but regardless, the deadclicks in the Xarpus and Verzik room are just awful. I've seen countless people die in those rooms because they were unable to move, despite clicking several times to get off of the square they're standing on. With enough practice, yes, it's possible to get used to the deadclicks and not be bothered by them too much, but they are still a bug in the game and it should be looked at much sooner rather than later.

 

4. Pathing at Maiden

Again, this is a big one. There are a total of 3 tiles that you can deal melee damage to maiden from, and only 1 if you don't have a long ranged melee weapon. It shouldn't take too much to fix this, and it would make raids much more versatile be being able to use another style of combat in this room.

 

5. Grandmaster Reward

This one isn't something that bothers many, but let's be honest. Assuming you're running normal xerics raids with a max set up and an infernal elixir, you can finish in about 5 minutes. For the sake of an example, let's say I grind every single raid in 5 minutes, just to unlock grandmasters to complete the achievement. That's 83 hours spent in raids. The Epic Pet Box just isn't a good enough reward for this big of a feat. Considering you can get the box as a basic reward from the 1000 raids you'll do trying to unlock grandmasters, and the 10 grandmasters for the achievement, amongst other ways, this just doesn't seem to be fair. I don't have an idea for what could replace it, but I just wanted to make the point.

 

 

 

[Abortion 2]

+1

[Rasta 34]

+1. I'm at a stalemate with raids at this point and would love a little spiffying up of raids. It's had clunky dead spots and weird pathing for a very long time. It may not seem like much to someone who isn't raiding all the time, but it makes a difference.

 

That being said, you do already get a xeric raid box from completing 10 master xerics. What do you propose as a reward for completing 10 of the new difficulty you suggest? Maybe a xeric's box and an epic bet box (u) would suffice.

 

Anyways, I would love to see a raids update regardless of what it is.

 

Cheers, Rasta.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Rasta

[God 14]

3 minutes ago, Rasta said:

It may not seem like much to someone who isn't raiding all the time, but it makes a difference.

That's exactly why I decided to make this thread. While a majority of the server only raid on occasion, there is a decent sized group of people who spend hours in raids every week, and these little issues become very tiresome quite quickly. 

 

4 minutes ago, Rasta said:

That being said, you do already get a xeric raid box from completing 10 master xerics. What do you propose as a reward for completing 10 of the new difficulty you suggest? Maybe a xeric's box and an epic bet box (u) would suffice.

I don't think that a bond would necessarily be a bad reward. A $100 bond equates to roughly 10b, which would be a nice little guarantee after all of the randomness from the boxes. With that being said, I'm not stuck on the idea of a bond, and would love to hear other users suggestions for what could suffice as a good reward for 1000 raids and 10 grandmasters.

[Iron Logic 910]

1. Support

2. Neutral

3. Support, though I personally made Ryan aware of those issues months ago and I believe it was a very difficult task to fix them.

4. Neutral. In a smart team meleeing is just fine, I almost always melee the first 75%, even with multiple players meleeing. 

5. No support, you could argue that no achievement rewards are worth the time or effort it takes to get them. The real reward for completing 1000 raids is 1000 raids worth of loot. 

[pr ime 60]

+1

[Romp 52]

+1 would like to see a difficulty change

[Rasta 34]

18 hours ago, Iron Logic said:

1. Support

2. Neutral

3. Support, though I personally made Ryan aware of those issues months ago and I believe it was a very difficult task to fix them.

4. Neutral. In a smart team meleeing is just fine, I almost always melee the first 75%, even with multiple players meleeing. 

5. No support, you could argue that no achievement rewards are worth the time or effort it takes to get them. The real reward for completing 1000 raids is 1000 raids worth of loot. 

Yes, you can melee Maiden. On 3 squares. That's the issue with it. It should be able to be attack from more than 1 location. If that spot gets covered in blood, you have no choice but to move and attack with ranged. Maiden should be able to be melee'd across all tiles on the front at least. Idk if you can melee it on the other sides on OSRS, as I haven't done ToBs on OSRS. It's a little dumb to be restricted to 3 squares of the same vertical row. There's 1 spot in front of Maiden you can melee. That's a little weak. I agree your argument on #5, however.

[Iron Logic 910]

5 minutes ago, Rasta said:

Yes, you can melee Maiden. On 3 squares. That's the issue with it. It should be able to be attack from more than 1 location. If that spot gets covered in blood, you have no choice but to move and attack with ranged. Maiden should be able to be melee'd across all tiles on the front at least. Idk if you can melee it on the other sides on OSRS, as I haven't done ToBs on OSRS. It's a little dumb to be restricted to 3 squares of the same vertical row. There's 1 spot in front of Maiden you can melee. That's a little weak. I agree your argument on #5, however.

I like the 3 squares though, it makes maiden an actual challenge to melee, opposed to the other bosses which are boring. 

The blood slats will disappear before a third one can hit you, so unless you get really unlucky you can constantly melee, a bad team doesn't help though. 

As I said, I'm neutral. I melee maiden, so I would benefit greatly if it was 'fixed', I just don't think it needs to change imo.

 

[Rasta 34]

16 minutes ago, Iron Logic said:

I like the 3 squares though, it makes maiden an actual challenge to melee, opposed to the other bosses which are boring. 

The blood slats will disappear before a third one can hit you, so unless you get really unlucky you can constantly melee, a bad team doesn't help though. 

As I said, I'm neutral. I melee maiden, so I would benefit greatly if it was 'fixed', I just don't think it needs to change imo.

 

The 3 tiles are nice for us with scythes. Not the rest of the players though. I'm thinking of people who use rapier and spear or even lower tier weapons.

[Iron Logic 910]

2 minutes ago, Rasta said:

The 3 tiles are nice for us with scythes. Not the rest of the players though. I'm thinking of people who use rapier and spear or even lower tier weapons.

If you don't have a scythe you shouldn't be meleeing to be fair  

[Rasta 34]

1 minute ago, Iron Logic said:

If you don't have a scythe you shouldn't be meleeing to be fair  

What about ironmen and such with no tbow or sang staff? It'd make ToBs more accessible for players with lower tier gear.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Rasta

[Uim Smotchi 5]

+1 on the deadclicks and tile fixings also difficulty reqs

[fletching96 0]

support man 100% support

[Iron Logic 910]

On 4/12/2019 at 2:40 PM, Rasta said:

What about ironmen and such with no tbow or sang staff? It'd make ToBs more accessible for players with lower tier gear.

I don't think more spots to melee maiden will be the deciding factor in what gear players can bring. 

I don't have a t bow or sang staff and I did ToB just fine before I got a scythe.

[God 14]

16 hours ago, Iron Logic said:

I don't think more spots to melee maiden will be the deciding factor in what gear players can bring. 

I don't have a t bow or sang staff and I did ToB just fine before I got a scythe.

That's not the point though.. Why should we settle for broken content with no/next to no effort put towards fixing it? Enough with adding new content and let's focus on getting the already existing content working properly. 

[Rasta 34]

4 hours ago, God said:

That's not the point though.. Why should we settle for broken content with no/next to no effort put towards fixing it? Enough with adding new content and let's focus on getting the already existing content working properly. 

Agreed. While yes, it is not impossible to do, it’s unnaturally clunky to melee Maiden, and I sometimes find myself simply not being able to run off of the poison pools at Xarpus. While I don’t think just anyone should be able to jump in ToBs and run em with weak gear, as the drop table is already nice for ToBs. It’s just locked behind so much other content that even some normie players have difficulty getting the proper range weapon or a better made weapon for raids just to keep up half the points of someone with a twisted bow or scythe.

 

I literally see zero downside into making these few little changes to raids, as they will improve it. None of this is mechanic or game breaking suggestions, just basically QoL and bug fixes for raids.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Rasta

[Iron Logic 910]

13 minutes ago, Rasta said:

It’s just locked behind so much other content that even some normie players have difficulty getting the proper range weapon or a better made weapon for raids just to keep up half the points of someone with a twisted bow or scythe.

This is the point, end game content should be locked behind a lot of mid game content. Especially with points not making with the most difference when it comes to loot and ToB being more mechanic based than CoX, lower tier gear just means you either take a lot longer to do them or can't find a team to 'carry'. 

But I don't mind if we can melee from all sides of maiden and if Ryan or Nate can find the spare time to fixed the deadclicks/click boxes I'd be happy. I just don't think they are the biggest issues. 

4 hours ago, God said:

Why should we settle for broken content with no/next to no effort put towards fixing it?

To say there has been no effort is a little disrespectful towards the devs. I compiled a huge list of bugs/QoL fixes for ToB and Xerics a while ago and most of them were fixed. Ryan even commented on the click boxes and it was a very difficult thing to fix. 

[hc wiglet 0]

On 4/10/2019 at 11:14 PM, God said:

Lately, there have been some wonderful changes made as far as raiding goes. The addition of the epic pet box and the new raid achievements are wonderful, and are much needed. That being said, there are a few things that could be done to enhance raiding even more-so. Some of these ideas have been suggested by other users, but I feel like they were not addressed in any updates and so I feel like they need to be brought to Ryan's attention again.

 

1. Raids Leaderboard/Highscores.

This would be a wonderful addition, as it would allow for genuine competition between friends and users to try and have more raids completed than other users. For users who have done lots of raids, it would give them a sense of pride to see their name at/near the top of the list. It would also give users who are interested in raiding an idea of who they could ask for information pertaining to raids, incase they are having issues. 

Additionally, if there was a way to count how many raids had been done at each difficulty, and the quickest time completed per difficulty, and how many people were in your group for said time, that would make the competition in raiding much more relevant. I understand that features like this would be much more difficult to add, but I think it's something that should be looked at in the near future.

 

2. Added difficulty/Grandmaster difficulty

Currently, the raid difficulties and requirements are as follows. 

• Normal - No Requirements - 
• Adept - 10 Raids - Bosses have 50% more hp, 10% more def, deal 5% more damage and the player deals 5% less damage
• Expert - 50 Raids - Bosses have 200% more hp, 20% more def, deal 7.5% more damage and the player deals 7.5% less damage
• Master - 150 Raids - Bosses have 300% more hp, 30% more def, deal 10% more damage and the player deals 10% less damage
• Grandmaster - 1000 Raids - Bosses have 400% more hp, 50% more def, deal 15% more damage and the player deals 15% less damage

Now, looking at this, there is a massive gap in-between Master and Grandmaster. What I propose, is either lowering the requirement for Grandmaster raids to 500 Raids, or more preferably, add in a new difficulty. Adding in a difficulty and adjusting Grandmasters so that they're more difficult would add another challenge for raiders to grind out, while feeling some sense of accomplishment during the grind to unlock Grandmasters. I propose the difficulty in-between Master and Grandmaster be 500 Raids completed with bosses having 400% more hp, 40% more def and deal 15% more damage, and the player deals 15% less, with Grandmasters being changed to 1000 Raids complete with Bosses having 500% more hp, 50% more def and deal 17.5-20% more damage, with the player dealing 17.5-20% less damage. With the addition of the new cursed weapons, I feel like these changes would be a great challenge to complete in a timely manner. 

 

3. Deadclicks in Xarpus and Verzik

This is a big one, and I know Ryan has made an attempt at fixing this, but regardless, the deadclicks in the Xarpus and Verzik room are just awful. I've seen countless people die in those rooms because they were unable to move, despite clicking several times to get off of the square they're standing on. With enough practice, yes, it's possible to get used to the deadclicks and not be bothered by them too much, but they are still a bug in the game and it should be looked at much sooner rather than later.

 

4. Pathing at Maiden

Again, this is a big one. There are a total of 3 tiles that you can deal melee damage to maiden from, and only 1 if you don't have a long ranged melee weapon. It shouldn't take too much to fix this, and it would make raids much more versatile be being able to use another style of combat in this room.

 

5. Grandmaster Reward

This one isn't something that bothers many, but let's be honest. Assuming you're running normal xerics raids with a max set up and an infernal elixir, you can finish in about 5 minutes. For the sake of an example, let's say I grind every single raid in 5 minutes, just to unlock grandmasters to complete the achievement. That's 83 hours spent in raids. The Epic Pet Box just isn't a good enough reward for this big of a feat. Considering you can get the box as a basic reward from the 1000 raids you'll do trying to unlock grandmasters, and the 10 grandmasters for the achievement, amongst other ways, this just doesn't seem to be fair. I don't have an idea for what could replace it, but I just wanted to make the point.

 

 

 

gannnnggg i like that shit homie

 

[Huff 44]

All of these should be worked on, or added. The high scores I also recommend having a leader board similar to the event where there's a general and an ironman section, but big support from me.

[God 14]

18 hours ago, Huff said:

All of these should be worked on, or added. The high scores I also recommend having a leader board similar to the event where there's a general and an ironman section, but big support from me.

100% I agree. I would like to see something separate for ironmen and regular players, maybe a 3 part leaderboard decided into sections of normal players/mixed players/ironmen only raids.

On April 13, 2019 at 10:44 PM, Iron Logic said:

To say there has been no effort is a little disrespectful towards the devs. I compiled a huge list of bugs/QoL fixes for ToB and Xerics a while ago and most of them were fixed. Ryan even commented on the click boxes and it was a very difficult thing to fix. 

There was certainly no disrespect intended, but when you contrast raid updates to any other content on runex, it's a vast difference in what gets paid attention to. Additionally, how are we suppose to take your work that you compiled a list and Ryan commented? What goes on behind closed doors isn't seen by me, nor 99.8% of the server. Perhaps releasing a statement outlining some of the difficulties they are having would be a good fix, where they could get feedback from the community about alternative ideas, or at least let us know what's going on so we don't all sit around waiting for nothing to happen. I've noticed recently that game developers are becoming much more transparent with issues fixing content in their respective games, and maybe runex needs to follow suit. 

 

On April 13, 2019 at 10:23 PM, Rasta said:

I literally see zero downside into making these few little changes to raids, as they will improve it. None of this is mechanic or game breaking suggestions, just basically QoL and bug fixes for raids.

I couldn't have said it better myself. With the exception of topic #5 - which I still don't even fully agree with, I just saw it being spoken about and decided it's worth discussing at least - I don't think any of these updates would have a negative impact on the game at all, and would only make the communities experience more enjoyable.

Edited April 15, 2019 by God

[Ralph 208]

On 4/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, God said:

1. Raids Leaderboard/Highscores.

I've supported this idea for a long time, it would definitely increase my motivation to get up to Grandmaster raids and beyond. Whether this be an actual scoreboard in-game setup next to the librarian or on the hiscores, I think it'd be a great addition.

On 4/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, God said:

2. Added difficulty/Grandmaster difficulty

Kind of indifferent about this one. I don't think another tier of raids is needed, nor do I think Grandmaster raids should be lowered in difficulty. I wouldn't hate to see it be added but I won't fully support it.

On 4/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, God said:

3. Deadclicks in Xarpus and Verzik

 

On 4/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, God said:

4. Pathing at Maiden

Obviously these two are just bug fixes and should be fixed no matter what.

On 4/10/2019 at 10:14 PM, God said:

5. Grandmaster Reward

I feel like the reward for the achievement is sufficient enough. The only way to improve the reward would be to have both raids boxes as a reward and I feel that'd be far too overpowered.

[Samuel 32]

I agree with everything that's been put here. Pathing is definitely an issue. It was been quite a big problem at bloat but it is not limited to bloat. The aforementioned bosses also have such issues.

In terms of difficulty you could always add the correct mechanics to the bosses at an alternative level, offer slightly increased rewards for players who love to raid and want more of a challenge. There should definitely be a level breaching the gap though otherwise your catering to the minority. 

The leader boards are something I believe should have been added from the offset. We offer event leaderboards, skill and pk leader boards but not a leader board for the most popular mini-game... A huge QOL to boost time team work and challenges. Theres no reason why a daily money maker couldn't be added to complete random raids in certain times. Some sort of competitive element.

I also believe there should be small additions like bonus damage or bonus rewards for using particular weapons almost like the clue scroll set up. Something to add a new twist to existing content.

Overall I think this is a solid and valid post which effects Runex's QOL.

[Vise 178]

1 hour ago, Ralph said:

I've supported this idea for a long time, it would definitely increase my motivation to get up to Grandmaster raids and beyond. Whether this be an actual scoreboard in-game setup next to the librarian or on the hiscores, I think it'd be a great addition.

Kind of indifferent about this one. I don't think another tier of raids is needed, nor do I think Grandmaster raids should be lowered in difficulty. I wouldn't hate to see it be added but I won't fully support it.

 

Obviously these two are just bug fixes and should be fixed no matter what.

I feel like the reward for the achievement is sufficient enough. The only way to improve the reward would be to have both raids boxes as a reward and I feel that'd be far too overpowered.

Ralph kinda said it all for me so +1

[God 14]

Appreciate all the feedback so far guys.