sarcothis

is the dropped money amount for pkers also increased, or is this just gold sink?

Please just at least give it the standard 250 runecoin value all boss pets get. It's a superior boss pet. I don't have any reasoning other than it makes sense since it's even harder to obtain than a normal boss pet and has literally 0 use outside looking nice. please Ryan.

@Rompjust thought to check, and if you're keeping up with this guide probably should move DHL down after its nerf. IDK how it compares to elder sara sword, but I'm pretty sure its worse than sunspear at least. can't confirm since i don't own one. but considering in my gear DHL is a 5-tick max hit 58 (with drag defender t) and kspear (e) is a max hit 51, and its only 4 tick, kspear (e) is better for dps, so i'd say its bottom of the list. or just removed since at its price/availability there's really no reason to mention it currently, aside from being a 1-hander and thus good for things like cerb where certain shields are necessary. Might be worth moving it to the "other gear tips" section as an honourable mention for 1 hander/dragon weapon. edit: oh, and since it was in the same update idk if the nerf to thermo (i) had any affect on its positioning, but i'd say its something worth looking at. double edit: and the crestbearer helm might be 1st bis now!

On my iron, Sarcothis, I got an Abbysal darksire to spawn, used the "trade votes for elucks" trick in the hopes of getting something good... but then darksire just bugged out and despawned for no discernible reason nearly right after i did the exchange. was wondering if i could lose the 5 epics from my account and get the 10 votes back, since they're not that easy to get on an iron (yknow, its like 3 days of voting). It's not a big loss so if ya say no it's kinda whatever, but it is annoying.

+1 Logic is someone I have disagreed with in the past, but he has always kept it professional and rational when we have disagreed. He is consistently helpful and willing to respond to anyone and everyone asking for assistance. Regardless of what form a staff rank may take (whether it be moderating the forums or simply as SS) I for one believe he should be part of the staff team, and could ask nothing more of him - I mean to say there is no aspect in particular of Logic that needs improvement in my eyes. He is as close to an ideal individual for staff as one could ever be.

see, and that's fine and all, but its not really what's gonna happen. The problem i have, and have already pointed out, is that it's going to be exactly the same for people who already have the perk to get superiors. You're still able to get GCP's entirely afk by doing GWD, but now you can only do it if you have the perk. I don't mind a change from afk to active, and you're entirely right that i, and my friends (for a total of 9 accounts) were permanently farming GWD back in the day. All of your observations are correct, and the solution *would* be correct, but the implementation is flawed in my eyes. Removing it from GWD entirely, or lowering the rates at which you get them (even from 1/133 to 1/500) would be a much better solution than moving it to superiors, because even if this change has reduced the rate at which crests are coming from GWD, it has NOT made it more active. Both I and my friend's accounts are able to COMPLETELY afk through GWD superiors. So it hasn't made it any more active for us. All it's done is block the source of the GCP's to being blocked behind a Boss Point pay-wall. So, for me and my friends atleast, this implementation has failed to do what it claims to do. It hasn't made it less afk to get GCP's, just slower. And if you're going to say the goal was to make it slower, than a simple reduction in rate would be more appropriate so that people don't have to grind out the boss points just to make the content worthwhile to do. also, i saw you say this ingame to Fighter aswell, and the fact is... it's okay? i mean its fine for RC but let's look at zilyana for someone without the superior GWD perk - her 1/64 drop table has the three godsword shards (15m ea at rc value) , the saradomin sword (30m at rc value) Armadyl crossbow (40m RC value, but 110m real value on market) and the saradomin hilt at 25m rc value and 100m actual value. breaking down that table and knowing the rates, we can calculate her money per kill from that table to be 750k - the table's average value is 47.5mil and it has a 1/64 rate - so the math says 750k per kill from that table. she also has her pet at a 1/1000 rate for 75m value giving an additional 75k value per kill. this makes zilyana worth 825k per kill. accounting for her regular coin drops we get about 860k per kill. That.... is awful. there's no way around it. allow me to prove that! Let's look at Elder Chaos druids, a common, aggressive mob that can be killed with effectively 0 respawn time. though prayer acc's have been removed from wild, since the prayer pet exists, they're still able to be afked. And, as a full inventory + row = all your coins are instantly banked, dying is not a risk. just based on their coins drop, they are valued at 140k ea. on average their 1/100 table is valued at about 20m. so some simple math makes that worth 200k ea as a table. 340k ea for a mob with 0 respawn time and 150 hp compared to zilyana's 255 (iirc) makes them take only 60% of the time to kill, meaning you can kill 1.66 (repeating) of them per zilyana you kill. This alone makes them (time wise) worth 566k per time it takes to kill zilyana. Now, adjust for the fact that you can use melee on them (and can't effectively do it on zilyana - blood barrage meta btw) and obviously your kill speed increases further. Account for her respawn time (which since im talking about low-tier players here, I refuse to say they have swift spawner) 30 seconds of respawn time per kill is more than enough time to kill an entire extra chaos druid, even with a low tier weapon like chaotic rapier. Elder chaos druids are more worthwhile to kill than zilyana. further proof you say?!? fine, let's look at lizardman shamans, a boss that's commonly killed by early game players, and can be done in even less gear than zilyana (which is a pretty low bar to set) Lizard men have a 1/1k chance at a dwh worth 200m - thats 200k per kill. they have the same chance for their pet, which recently due to a lack of supply has gone up to 300-350m per pet. considering none are on market, it's fair to use the higher of those two prices. thats 350k more per kill. finally they have their measly ring drop, which at a 1/500 rate and 20m in value, adds only 40k per kill. that makes them worth 590k per kill. now, they also have 150 hp, so we'll use the same basic math to show that roughly 1 and 2/3 of a shaman could be killed per zilyana (again not accounting for the fact that melee gear is higher dps than blood barrage) and simply doing their money per kill multiplied by 1.66 (the amount of them that can be killed per zilyana) shows that per zilyana you kill (860k made) you get 979k at lizardman shamans. (or a 14% increase) so, since you can just buy runecoins, for anyone who isn't an ironman, nearly anything else in the game is worth doing instead. Which is exactly my problem. Without the Superior GWD perk, this nerf has GUTTED zilyana (the only GWD boss that's killable with gear equatable to lizardman shamans) . I'm not saying it was a bad idea to move the crests. I'm not saying i like the afk meta. I'm not saying to put them back. But seriously. The changes made do not align with the stated goals of the update. It has not moved the sources of GCP away from GWD for the majority of players, since a lot of people have superiors and can still get them just fine. What you have done is made it so there is NO POINT (for non irons) to go to GWD pre-superior GWD perk, as i believe i have sufficiently proven with my calculations here, since it would be more profitable to do a myriad of other, just as afk things. So, go back, reduce the rates at which GCP are gotten from GWD, instead of just making it only from superiors. Because in fact, by moving them ENTIRELY to superiors, you've enabled people to get more of them by using epic lucks on superiors. allow me to compare this update to one made prior. The instanced Kourend update. Instanced Kourend is a mixed bag - you can use cannons but get reduced spawns (restored if on slayer task) so, if you don't have instanced kourend you can still get dark totems. You can do normal, non instanced kourend. So even though people with instanced kourend have an advantage (like how players with superior boss perks can get extra GCP's from their task) People who don't have instanced kourend still have access to the things that perk provides, only less convenient and perhaps a bit slower. So now imagine a world in which dark totems can ONLY be obtained in instanced kourend. There would no longer be a reason to do tasks in the kourend dungeon unless you're forced to through a brimstone task (since kourend monsters all have more HP than their non-kourend counterparts, this also has lower slayer points/h) It would feel stupid to have the entire point someone does a certain piece of content (like how people only do GWD for gcp's) be removed until you have a perk that is obtained much later. Now, imagine when you say on the update post "hey man kourend feels kinda dumb since skotizo was the whole point people did kourend and now i can't get totem pieces" and someone replies "yea but Kourend is useful for slayer points aswell" it would feel like they've missed the point entirely. Because you can do slayer ANYWHERE. just like you can make money or get runecoins ANYWHERE.

I gotta be honest though, if there's one thing about this update i HATE its the movement of gcp's from regular GWD to only superiors in GWD. because it basically says "if you dont have superior GWD unlocked, its dead content for you". because GCP was the only reason to go godwars dungeon. And i'm sure for the majority of long-standing players who already have that perk unlocked, we wont see much change. but when i got started out GWD was a saving grace for me. and knowing that that's impossible now kinda sucks imo. The rest of it i like (except scythe nerf cause i got it today ;( ! ) but it IS a good update. I'm not gonna lie. I like it overall. just some parts of it leave me a bit heartbroken. also - in regards to stacking the same accessory - say i had a master luck and a regular luck... do they still stack the same? since they're *technically* different accessories? or is it the same "type" that don't stack together as well?

tfw i knew DHL would get nerfed got a scythe today thanked my lucky stars i dodged the nerf then got nerfed anyways XD

I was at the first phase of verzik in TOB the raid after getting my scythe, and when i went to shift click dawnbringer to drop it, i left clicked first, equipping it, then shift clicked the scythe that was in my hands prior. This dropped it to the ground, and as my friend @Raigo was spam clicking in order to get the dawnbringer, he picked up the scythe. He is willing to give it back, but obviously being an iron this is impossible without staff help. I hope that I am able to get it back. edit: currently Raigo has it on his account, obviously it needs to be taken by a staff member at some point, but we are unsure on how to proceed, so it is remaining on his account, awaiting response from staff.

fair point! That definitely would be a helpful image to add. the next raid I do I'll grab a screenshot Edit: If anyone is wondering "hey, he posted this comment a little while ago, where's the screenshot?" I swear to god guys, I tried, and I just cannot for the life of me figure out how to add images to the post. If anyone knows how, send help please.

Thanks! I removed a lot of unnecessary text to make it less of a wall, broke the paragraphs better, added more spacing in general to make it more digestible, and added colors for some clarity and to make it look a bit nicer. Personally i find images to be a bit wasteful on space in some other guides on runex (like, does anyone need to know what bloat looks like?) but there definitely are some images that could be helpful. I'll try to add in more as time goes on.

Gear - you will need all three styles in order to effectively do TOB. Better gear will only get you faster times. Not necessarily make it easier, because TOB's difficulty is entirely tied to your prayer and movement. Your defense stats are effectively irrelevant. Thereby, for gear, simply refer to Romp's gear guide (topic 11373), and bring your best items for each style. There are only a couple notes i would make on gear: 1. You don't need inventory space, so sacrifice no gear swaps. Food in TOB is not an issue, except the final boss, Verzik, as she hits through prayer regularly. All other bosses, done correctly, will barely damage you. I have never used more than 2 sara brews for a normal TOB, and I am by no means a good player. 1a. Elite void is not good. If you've read that it is, just know it is worse than your regular gear and only saves inventory spaces, which as i said is irrelevant, as you do not need much space. 2. on one boss you will have to swap through attack styles somewhat quickly. for this reason, a mage weapon with a built in attack (like Vorpal staff), or a ranged weapon without arrows (Blowpipe or Zaryte) can make switching a bit easier. It is by no means necessary, but will make your life easier if you already have them. 3. A Crystal Halberd from the achievement store can be a good spec weapon for the second boss, Bloat. bring one if you feel like it. 4. Mage is the least necessary combat style, being used almost exclusively for the Spider room. Bad mage gear is not an issue. Inventory - You will want a couple sara brews, some super restores (obviously), any form of stat boosting item, a stamina potion, and all of your gear. What most people care about - the bosses and their mechanics. The Maiden - The Maiden is an incredibly simple boss. Use your highest DPS weapon. it does not matter what style it is. Pray protection from magic and the attack boosting prayer appropriate to your weapon. It may be helpful to DWH spec her. She will occasionally throw out pools of blood at every player. One will always land on the tile you are standing on, so you must move. several more will land around you, so moving 3+ tiles is recommended. If you stand in a blood pool, a minion will spawn who leaves a trail of blood wherever they move. If you are standing on the SIDES (or back) of the boss, these minions will never bother you, as they will always roam in front of her. As such, ignore them if they do spawn. When she reaches 70%, 50%, and 30% life for the first time, she will spawn spiders near the front of the room that run to her and heal her. The general strategy is to completely ignore them and "brute force" the boss down. However, you may also ice barrage them to death. Depending on your gear, this may be faster. The Bloat - Bloat is simple, but deadly. Pray range and enter the room and run clockwise around the center. You never want to be on the same side of the center square as the bloat while he is moving. Always stay out of his line of sight. Small shadows appear on the ground where hands will land and stun you if you're under them. There are two main things the bloat will do during the entire fight: 1. "Shut down" the bloat will slow and stop moving. During this phase he poses no threat at all, and during this time you should run up and hit him. I've found generally with a 4-tick weapon (scimitars, whips, etc) you can get in 6 hits consistently without fear of him waking up. BEFORE he wakes up, run back around the corner you came from, or he will quickly assault you (and any allies near you) with ranged attacks until you break line of sight again. 2. "Turn around" at each and every corner of the room, Bloat may choose to turn around. Always be on the watch for this, and be ready to start running the other direction. Basically, hide from him until he shuts down, hit him, and repeat. An additional thing that you should know is that you can sneak in an extra hit on him each and every time he turns a corner. If you are standing at the previous corner, just as Bloat turns the next, you can attack him. BE SURE to do this AFTER he has "made the decision" to turn or not, else, there is a chance he will turn and kill you and your whole team. All you have to do is click him as he enters the next side of the square, and click backwards as your attack lands (or else you'll continue attacking him and follow around the corner). Spiders/The Spider - First, you will enter a room with three pathways of webs. Down these webs will come spiders of three different colors, grey, green, and blue. Respectively, they may only be damage by melee, ranged, and mage. If you have a group of people, split responsibilities for these styles. If you're alone, you only need to swap weapons. (here it is helpful to have something like a Vorpal, so you dont need to select a spell each time). Deal with the spiders for some amount of time and then a much larger, "boss" spider will spawn. TURN OFF AUTO RETALIATE. (obviously you can do this beforehand) This spider will occasionally rotate through the aforementioned colors. She will use the damage type her color represents, and may only be damaged by that same type. FOCUS ON SWAPPING YOUR PROTECTION PRAYER FIRST. then swap your weapon, and attack her. Attacking with an incorrect style will result in you being dealt a lot of damage. Xarpus - Pray protection from range when entering. There are two things to know for this fight 1. Poison pools - he will, just like maiden, shoot pools underneath you and in the surrounding area. Simply do not stand on them. 2."Magia Transitum" and "Arti Saggitarium transitum" these mean "PRAY PROTECT FROM MAGIC" and "PRAY PROTECT FROM RANGED". Obey his commands, and you will be rewarded with not dying. Simply pay attention to him or the chat box, whichever is easier, and pray correctly. Important: after the Xarpus room (the red wall) but before the next room (the big wooden gate) there is a skeleton. Searching this skeleton will give you the Dawnbringer. It is a weapon crucial to the first phase of the next, and final boss, Verzik. Verzik - Phase 1. Upon entering the room Verzik is not aggressive. Stand (On the center tile) behind one of the pillars closest to her, and pray protect from magic just in case. Then, use Dawnbringer's special attack on her as many times as possible. A Ring of Vigour/Grand ring can be very effective for this, but is by no means necessary. If you are in a team, drop Dawnbringer so they may also use their special attacks. Anyone without the staff may attack her normally, with ranged or mage. Melee is not an option as standing anywhere except behind a pillar will quickly result in death. Note: if all special attacks have been used and she is still in the first phase, someone should continue attacking with Dawnbringer. It is VERY effective in the first phase. additional note: if your pillar breaks, simply move to a new one, preferably before (while it is in flight) or as soon as her attack lands on the pillar. Verzik - Phase 2. For this phase any style of attack may be used. She will simply target the square you are standing on with an attack, extremely similar to Vasa for those familiar with raids 1. Simply hit and move. She spawns additional minions during this phase. Kill them if you wish, but they can generally be ignored. Note: the minions are colored spiders as seen before, but now any attack style may be used to kill them. Verzik - final phase. For the final phase, follow the same prayer rules as Xarpus. She will start on ranged, just like him, and say the same exact phrases to indicate which prayer is correct. However, she will also follow you and try to melee attack you. Her melee attack hurts quite a bit, so try your best to stay away from her (melee not advised). If you have someone using magic for this phase, have them freeze her. Besides her melee attack, the only other thing to worry about during this phase is her final "mini-phase" of sorts. when her health reaches 20%, a "Tornado" will spawn for each player in the room. Each will choose a specific player to follow. You only have to worry about your own tornado, and those of allies can be considered safe to run through if necessary. Simply move away from the tornado while following what I have already said above for this phase (avoid melee and pray correctly) and you'll be fine. Once this phase is done, leave this room through where you entered, and you'll find yourself at the reward chest. Congratulations, and I hope this guide will help people. I personally didn't do TOB for the longest time because I didn't understand some mechanics, and when the lovely @Beedletaught me, i realized just how easy it was, and how dumb i was for not doing it earlier. So for anyone who was in my same shoes, you now have what I wished for back in those days.

@Rompfor the mage boots guide shouldn't brimstones be included? they're on par with Arcan in terms of accuracy, and have higher defences except in the magic defense stat. Edit: also, i think frozen wyvern ought to be higher on the list, but i can see your reasoning. Compared to book of verzik, its has the same exact offensive stats, but verzik has a +5 prayer bonus, whereas frozen wyvern shield has +80 defense in all melee defense stats.

to think that so many good fixes/changes could be in an update that's not even the main update is pretty amazing. Awesome work as always, never been disappointed by an update on runex.

I would just like to add to this (and I'm not doubting lava here, want to make that clear) but me and my group (Fighterh2o5, Dooshgasmmm) did pk an amulet of avarice from an iron yesterday, and I really am about 80% sure it was Lava. It's sometimes easy to forget to swap your gear before heading out into the wild, and I've made this mistake several times, so he may not have noticed it. I don't know if it would be any faster to check, but checking those logs in particular (note : I don't know at all what your logs look like) and seeing if one of the three of us killed him, and if it was for that item, might be faster. But seriously, not sayin you're lyin, or that bugs don't happen, but I do know people do sometimes tele out with the wrong setup and not notice it.