[Event] (in depth) Wyvern shield needs a buff.

[mageh2o5 0]

Just now, Iron Logic said:

Secondly you are wrong about diversity. If something like the lava pendant protected against all forms of dragon and wyvern fire, then I never need anything else. 

(this was going to be made as a reply on the original topic, but it was locked without explanation as i was writing this, so instead of just the "fix the shield" argument based on what it "should" do according to OSRS, I've made a post comparing the use of wyvern shield ( and other dragonfire protection) to the lava pendant and appropriate off-hands. If anyone wants to see what I'm quoting, or what was said before, please simply view that post. however, it's not super relevant to what I've put here)

tl;dr : lava pendant is so powerful that all other forms of dragon protection are basically worthless. Wyvern shield does not give dragonfire protection (at all) and I (and others) believe it should because the whole purpose of the ancient wyvern shield is to be a DFS but for mage. Its stats are sub-par for mage offhands, so giving it dragonfire would at least give it a purpose. Iron Logic tried comparing lava pendant and wyvern shield, I pointed out how dumb that is.

 

 

Wyvern visage should have full dragonfire protection. It doesn't have good enough stats as just another mage off-hand, and giving it dragonfire would make it match people's expectations of the items, aswell as giving the item a purpose outside of JUST fighting wyverns.

here's the fact: Mage off hand +lava pendant = full dragonfire + high stats
(infinity book for instance, 30 acc, 2.5% dmg. + pendant 8 acc 5% dmg = 38 acc 7.5% dmg total vs. wyvern/occult 20 acc 0% damage, 12 acc 10% damage = 32 acc 10% damage total) So, their stats are pretty much the same, lava pendant has a higher droprate (even compared to ancients) is less cancerous to acquire (for irons)
(you want to know the amount of times other types of wyverns aggro onto me into the wyvern cave? that place is way too fucking cramped and every moment spent in there is a living nightmare, but that's a different suggestion)
 and lava pendant supplies full dragonfire protection compared to none (or the proposed - in the other post - half) of the wyvern shield. 

melee offhand + lava pendant = full dragonfire, higher stats. (cursed def. 35 acc, 6 str. pendant = 12 acc 8 str. total 47/14 vs. torture + dfs 15 acc + 10 str + 0acc + 7str total  15/17.) melee isnt even a competition. pendant is far superior.

ranged offhand (or just a two handed bow) + pendant... want to guess what it =?
...highest stats +dragonfire.
...well i tried finding the stats for the ranged version, but its not on item guide and i cant find it anywhere in the market, so either since people dont do vorkath one doesn't exist in game, or for some reason the skeletal visage exists and dragonfire ward doesn't. I don't know, either way that just proves further that pendant is the only real choice. (which to remind everyone, is bad for build diversity)

Pendant absolutely ruins diversity already. making wyvern visage shitty isn't gonna change that. In fact, buffing it would, as i said (in the other post), INCREASE BUILD DIVERSITY by actually making an item that could compete with pendant. At this point it isn't a matter of preference. the calculations of their combined stats above definitively prove that buffing wyvern shield to provide full dragonfire protection would make it ON PAR with other builds. builds being of equal strength increases build diversity (again, you literally cannot disagree with it. that's how diversity works) and so buffing the wyvern shield would in fact, have the opposite effect that you have stated.

(all this talk of build diversity refers to the previous comment by Iron Logic, who somehow believes that making wyvern shield a viable choice would lessen build diversity somehow)
honestly, maybe the problem is that lava pendant needs a nerf. but the fact is, right now, in the current game state, there's no good reason to use a wyvern shield except killing wyverns. that is bad for build diversity.

Not to mention, if you've killed that many wyverns, and haven't discovered its better to just use soulsplit with lava pendant + a better melee offhand for way faster kills, i feel bad for you man.
and that's not even accounting for the fact that this method would allow for prayer accessories on pets for infinite afking.

and yeah, oh boi man, wyvern shield with upgrade for 3 billion gold makes it SLIGHTLY better than the 200m lava pendant build. damn, you got me. 
(this refers to a comment mentioning the 15,000 runecoin upgrade to the wyvern shield available for higher stats)


(and guess what? it still doesnt have fucking fire protection after a 3b upgrade)
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just give it full fire protection. this argument is a joke.

37 minutes ago, Iron Logic said:

If something like the lava pendant protected against all forms of dragon and wyvern fire, then I never need anything else.

yeah. if something with good tribrid stats had full wyvern and dragon fire protection, you're right. you wouldn't need anything else.
However, if the wyvern shield (which has negative stats in everything but mage) (and takes away your ability to use an off-hand) had full dragonfire and wyvern protection, then you'd still need a different shield for both melee and ranged, and it would STILL be only on par compared to using a different mage offhand alongside lava pendant.

thanks for your opinion though, "logical" content policeman. Might want to work some more on that first part though, and actually think things through a bit more, before you go comparing worthless items that are good for one combat style and one monster specifically, to another item that's good for all styles, and a great many monsters simply because of it's good base stats.


a couple last numbers to leave you with - the lava pendant has 2 more to all melee accuracy than a fury, 9 more to all melee defence, 1 to mage/range defence, and the same strength.
compared to a torture, only 3 less melee accuracy, 2 less strength, and vastly higher defence.
compared to anguish, 7 less accuracy, 1 less strength,  and again, vastly higher defence.

compared to occult,  4 less accuracy, 5% damage, vastly higher defence.
as one amulet, its about equivalent to all four necklaces it competes with, except occult if we're talking pure damage.

the lava can be used in almost any situation, in addition to having full dragon and half wyvern protection.

wyvern shield, compared to the infinity book (which is half the price)  10 less accuracy, 2.5% less damage, higher defence.
much like lava compared to occult, they're somewhat even, but worse if we're talking damage.
the wyvern can be used 
1. against wyverns

2. nothing else
and has 0 dragonfire, full wyvern protection.

i know i said it before, but this argument is a god damn joke. "hey can this useless item atleast work how people expect it to so it's a little less bad?"
"no. this item has some extremely niche uses and making it do any more than that would somehow make people use fewer items"

*meanwhile has no problem with lava pendant literally being THE item you bring when fighting dragons*
(which makes people use fewer items)
(like people don't even use dfs, which is supposed to be what you use when fighting dragons)
(honestly, even with full dragonfire, I'd still use lava pendant instead of wyvern shield, since according to the stats that i stated at the start of this comment, occult+wyvern is still only the tiniest of margins better than pendant+offhand)

(just fix the damn shield)

[Cup Of Tea 44]

Legit to much to read for a wyvern shield. LUL.

Leave it as it is.

Just git gud and wear a pendant.

-Tea Out

[Iron Logic 910]

I'd just like to point out a few things.

1. If you are going to 'quote' me, quote everything. Telling people to just go read another post generally doesn't work and they will just take what you say as gospel. 
2. The post was locked because it was a clear grave dig.
3. Please use some form of formatting, reading this post was nauseating. 

2 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

Iron Logic tried comparing lava pendant and wyvern shield, I pointed out how dumb that is.

I compared having the lava pendant fully protect against all forms of dragon/wyvern fire to the wyvern shield protecting against all forms of dragon/wyvern fire. Meaning you would only need one, the pendant, decreasing diversity because it would make the wyvern shield lose its niche. 

2 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

Wyvern visage should have full dragonfire protection. It doesn't have good enough stats as just another mage off-hand, and giving it dragonfire would make it match people's expectations of the items, aswell as giving the item a purpose outside of JUST fighting wyverns.

Even on OSRS it only has half protection, which would not save you at Olm. Again, if you want dragon fire protection, get a dragon fire shield. The wyvern shield has other purposes as well, it is a common magic off-hand for pking.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

you want to know the amount of times other types of wyverns aggro onto me into the wyvern cave? that place is way too fucking cramped and every moment spent in there is a living nightmare, but that's a different suggestion

There is an upstairs area with 3 ancient wyverns, 2 of the spawns are in AFK distance. I've AFKed multiple visages.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

and lava pendant supplies full dragonfire protection compared to none (or the proposed - in the other post - half) of the wyvern shield. 

You doubled back on your point, do you want full dragonfire protection or half dragonfire protection? I mean, you've read through all of my comments on that post and tell people that it isn't relevant to this post, buuuuut:

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

melee offhand + lava pendant = full dragonfire, higher stats. (cursed def. 35 acc, 6 str. pendant = 12 acc 8 str. total 47/14 vs. torture + dfs 15 acc + 10 str + 0acc + 7str total  15/17.) melee isnt even a competition. pendant is far superior.

A lot of players use the DFS, because it is much easier to get than a pendant. 

 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

ranged offhand (or just a two handed bow) + pendant... want to guess what it =?
...highest stats +dragonfire.

There is no viable 1 handed ranged weapon to even compare to 2H weapons, why even bring this up.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

..well i tried finding the stats for the ranged version, but its not on item guide and i cant find it anywhere in the market, so either since people dont do vorkath one doesn't exist in game, or for some reason the skeletal visage exists and dragonfire ward doesn't. I don't know, either way that just proves further that pendant is the only real choice. (which to remind everyone, is bad for build diversity)

The dragonfire ward stats are fairly decent, but as I said, there are no viable 1H range set-ups. I have multiple wards. 
This isn't a really good point for you though, the primary reason people use the lava pendant with range set-ups is because all viable range weapons are 2H. 

 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

the calculations of their combined stats above definitively prove that buffing wyvern shield to provide full dragonfire protection would make it ON PAR with other builds.

Double Doubled back on your argument  But no. Imagine a world where all of the DFS variants gave all fire protection. I'd still use a scythe for melee and a twisted bow for range, then for magic, how often do you mage something that uses dragonfire. 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

(all this talk of build diversity refers to the previous comment by Iron Logic, who somehow believes that making wyvern shield a viable choice would lessen build diversity somehow)

You're an idiot, read my posts on that thread. I said making the lava pendant protect against wyvernfire would make the wyvern shield useless. This is why you didn't quote my entire post, so you could misrepresent me.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

Not to mention, if you've killed that many wyverns, and haven't discovered its better to just use soulsplit with lava pendant + a better melee offhand for way faster kills, i feel bad for you man.

I have a scythe, you likely don't. I feel bad for you man :[ 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

and yeah, oh boi man, wyvern shield with upgrade for 3 billion gold makes it SLIGHTLY better than the 200m lava pendant build. damn, you got me. 
(this refers to a comment mentioning the 15,000 runecoin upgrade to the wyvern shield available for higher stats)

"Waaaaah the shield is shit and has shit stats and no uses, waaaaaah"
'You can upgrade the shield as well'
"oh boi, you got me"

Was just trying to help out a new player.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

(and guess what? it still doesnt have fucking fire protection after a 3b upgrade)
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The wyvern shield doesn't protect from dragonfire?  The audacity! 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

yeah. if something with good tribrid stats had full wyvern and dragon fire protection, you're right. you wouldn't need anything else.

Oh you did read my post, so why did you put words in my mouth?

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

thanks for your opinion though, "logical" content policeman. Might want to work some more on that first part though, and actually think things through a bit more, before you go comparing worthless items that are good for one combat style and one monster specifically, to another item that's good for all styles, and a great many monsters simply because of it's good base stats.

Woah, so original.
Again, you are misrepresenting my original argument. Maybe you should try reading a little more before you make a huge blob of text trying to argue against a statement that you made up yourself. 

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

a couple last numbers to leave you with - the lava pendant has 2 more to all melee accuracy than a fury, 9 more to all melee defence, 1 to mage/range defence, and the same strength.
compared to a torture, only 3 less melee accuracy, 2 less strength, and vastly higher defence.
compared to anguish, 7 less accuracy, 1 less strength,  and again, vastly higher defence.

compared to occult,  4 less accuracy, 5% damage, vastly higher defence.
as one amulet, its about equivalent to all four necklaces it competes with, except occult if we're talking pure damage.

There are literally better necklaces than everything you mentioned. Heard of the Sang pendant? Cursed Necklace? Torture[or]? Amulet of Ranging[t]?Arcane?
The lava pendant may be a good tribrid amulet, especially for mid game, but there is still a better tribrid amulet, as well as better style specifics.

3 hours ago, mageh2o5 said:

"hey can this useless item atleast work how people expect it to so it's a little less bad?"
"no. this item has some extremely niche uses and making it do any more than that would somehow make people use fewer items"

Oooo quotes, care to point out the actual post where I said these things, or even anything near them? 
You can't.
I agreed that the wyvern shield should offer the ANTI-FIRE SHIELD effect, in part with OSRS, but said that it should not be 100% efficient as high end bosses like KLD, KBD and Vorkath. 

 

End of the day, you are arguing against a ghost. You think that I said that the wyvern shield should offer no dragonfire protection. Yet I said it should act like it does in OSRS. 
Not sure what else to tell you man,
Have a nice day.